Adam:
Welcome back, everyone. Thanks for being here. This is the uniquely named Adam Clairmont podcast. I’m your host, Adam Clairmont. Here we discussstarting and growing a career in audio, increasing revenue, helping create a positive work life balance and giving back and sharing with those who are still just trying to figure it out.
And honestly, aren’t we all just trying to figure it out, right? All this within the audio creative space. But before we begin our conversation, I’d like to offer you a free gift. I put together a list of top tips and tricks that have helped me throughout my career to be more productive and more efficient with my time when I have more time, I can either put it back in my business and earn more money, or I can just put it into other things I love like my family or my friends, you know, going out to eat, going to dinner, vacation, whatever.
I know. If you put into use the tips I’ve laid out for you, you will benefit a whole lot. I’ve benefited. And I just want to share it with you. So please go to Adamclairmont.com/workflow, and lastly, please help and support the channel by subscribing hit the like button ring the bell. It really goes a long way with the algorithm and that helps me reach more. People provide more free content just like this. So thanks so much for doing that and giving your support now on with the show. Here’s our guest, in addition to mixing and producing music, Dave has written music for television shows such as the Wahlburgers he’s been on the NFL network. His music’s been on MTVs catfish, bike TVs, ink master, so many more. He is also a voting member of the Grammy’s and a recording arts department chair at the new school in New York, where he teaches audio engineering and music production. So, Dave, thank you so much for taking the time to talk today, man.
David:
Hey man. My pleasure. Thanks for asking me.
Adam:
So I know you to be one of the best problem solvers that I know point andcase just before this, having a couple issues with our video and audio Dave’s right there with a fix. So yeah. So at the time of this taping, we’re both kind of stuck in this pandemic brought on by COVID-19. I think we’re kind of getting on our way out of it, hopefully, but when this whole thing happened, you had a classroom full of students who basically lost their classroom. So can you talk about how you managed to pivot and continue class or students aren’t stuck and losing out on their education?
David:
Yeah. Um, I’m actually crazy proud of both my students and all my colleagues, administration and the other teachers because we switched to seamlessly. Um, obviously learning this stuff is very much a hands on thing. You know, I’ve been teaching it for 10 or 11 years now in a studio, like with gear every single day. So to go from that from a video, uh, internet chat is it’s provided a lot of challenges. Um, but we literally did it overnight. We did it just before it was all mandated because we kind of figured it was coming anyway and we just made the jump smart. And um, I’m very proud to say that today. Um, my, I have two classes, my advanced class, uh, they just took their one 10, uh, pro tools certification and every one of them passed the test. So pretty, yeah, pretty happy about that as well.
Adam:
I remember when I took that test way back when believe me, my whole class did not pass, so
David:
yeah, it’s, it’s unusual. We’ve been teaching, we’ve been an avid learning partner for, I don’t know, five, six years now, something like that. And for every student in the class to pass is not, it’s not normal, but actually the whole online teaching thing has kind of made it easier for people to be comfortable and in their element. And like, you know, when you’re comfortable in, in, in your, in your element, you can learn better, I suppose. I don’t know. Um, yeah, but they’ve, they’ve been doing great. Yeah.
Adam:
Yeah. I mean, I’ve been at home for the most part, uh, since March working from, uh, my guest bedroom, because I mean, who needs those these days? You know what I mean? And uh, along those lines, I mean, honestly, uh, yeah, there’s some stressful moments, but I feel as a whole, I’m far less stressed, I’m at home, so I’m kind of comfortable, you know what I mean? And I feel like my work is really improving and even just like, you know, just, um, having the time to like be with my family and everything. So, I mean, I can imagine the same thing happening when you’re just trying to learn, you know, the stress of going to school and getting in the car and making their own time and everything else that comes with life. Yeah. I would bet just, uh, you know, as being home in a comfortable environment, maybe that does help, uh, and maybe not so much for other people, I suppose it’s all, you know, you’re going to yang, but, but that that’s great that I, no joke. I think when I took that test, Dave, I think the benchmark was something like 10 or 15% of the classroom was usually passing.
David:
Oh really? Well. Yeah. Well, they don’t make it easy. You have to get an 80 to pass and they ask you tricky questions. They’ll ask you two questions in a row. They’re almost exactly the same, but they’ll just kind of like try to get you, you know, so yeah.
Adam:
So, so, you know, you’re clearly doing a good job there as an educator. Tell me, like, what do you think, uh, are some of the most important skills for students to learn or anyone who’s like learning, um, something with an audio and maybe, you know, maybe they’re coming out of school, maybe it’s a hobbyist who’s trying to pivot away from the full time career that that person has right now into actually making, uh, audio their career. What, what is it you think that people really need to figure out and, and, and, and know before they can do that?
David:
Uh, I think, I mean, first and foremost is obviously just being able to do it. Um, I think if, if that’s your, if that’s your passion, if that’s what you really, really want to do, then that will kind of happen sooner or later, I think. Um, but you know, what, what I’ve seen, perhaps some students not fully grasp is the concept that there is opportunity everywhere. You know, I don’t care if it’s the guy at Dunkin donuts, who’s given you a cup of coffee, like there’s opportunity everywhere to learn something, to meet somebody, to, you know, to, to reach out, to, to find some kind of like trade. Uh, I mean, it’s, it’s endless and it, as soon as you realize that and you kind of go about your daily life with that mindset, it presents itself to you. Um, you know, and I can only speak for myself.
Adam:
That’s, that’s, you know, kind of worked for me so far, but I dunno, it’s a opportunity is absolutely everywhere. So I feel like, I feel like every day, every day I do something and I’m like, wow, I can’t believe that was right there in front of me. Just like that. Yeah. Yeah. I feel the same way. I say it all the time. I mean, every, I feel like every benchmark in my career, my path has been by happy accident. Yeah. You know, and it’s, so it’s a tough question to answer, like how do, how do you succeed at X, Y, Z? You know, I don’t know, just keep doing it. Like just it’s it’s it’s a tough question to answer, I guess. Maybe we’ll get to that. Yeah, no kidding. Yeah. And honestly, isn’t like every answer in the audio space. I mean, how many times do you get asked? Like how do you Eq a kick drum? Or how do you compress this? And it’s always like, yeah. Yet the answer is always, it depends.
David:
My students hate that answer to, Hey, what should I, what frequency should I turn up for the kick drum? I don’t know what kind of song is it? How’s the kick drum tuned know, I know it never ends, you know, but, but I think like that sort of exercise is still important to really dislike, you know, talk through those things, I guess, you know, especially talking about like, just getting out of your brain over gear and the how to, and yeah, like you said, clearly you’ve gotta be able to do the task. You got to have to, you need the confidence of the people around you who are paying you to do the job. Right. But like, you gotta get them in the room first. You got to get yourself in the room first. And like, that’s not really something that you’re going to learn inside a ProTools or a doll or in front of a microphone or whether your guitar, you know?
Adam:
Yeah. So that whole opportunity thing is huge. It’s huge. Um, yeah. So like, so like I just mentioned, I mean, you know, gear is so fun to talk about, you know, I know that, I know that you’re like a, kind of a no nonsense guy and you kind of boil down, you know, a lot of what you do, uh, to the core and to the bare bones of what you need to get the job done. You want to talk about like, what gear you like and what you talk about with students. Cause I know you have a somewhat unique approach to this. Sure. Yeah. Um, I think that like, I, I wake up excited every single day. Like when I go to my studio to do any kind of work, because I’m constantly reminded of the fact that like for over a hundred years, since the beginning, or since, you know, uh, the invention of sound recording, we’ve been striving all this time to get to a point where we have like perfect fidelity and we’re there, we’re there right now.
David:
So it’s like, I know. And we’ve kind of been there for a while, which is crazy. So nowadays, like I’m much more interested in, you know, techniques to make, what is in your mind to come to fruition. Then I am worried about, you know, whether or not this mic is going to let me do the job I needed to do. Um, you know, so when we talk about gear in class, I mean my intro class just had the microphone lecture yesterday. Of course, we talk about the, uh, you know, the standard stuff, the pickup patterns, the different types of mics, how they work. Um, but I don’t really harp on, you know, you gotta spend a billion dollars to get this micro. I’ll say it’s all garbage. You know, that, I don’t know, like I’ve, I’ve had a lot of students ask about like, Hey, I’ve got a thousand dollar budget for, uh, for my studio. Do you think I should like, get a [inaudible]?
David:
And I’m like, I mean, the C414 is a great mic. Don’t get me wrong. But if you got a thousand bucks, I think maybe I would spend a lot less on the mic and, you know, focus on other things. And, um, yeah, I don’t know. It’s, uh, I love talking about gear. I’ll tell you one thing several years ago. Um, I don’t know, probably 10 or 12 years ago. Um, I was at a point in my career where like, I felt like I was kind of getting, I was doing paid work. I was doing professional work, all that stuff, but I wasn’t really like satisfied with the sound that I was getting. And I just had it in my head that I didn’t have the gear to get the sound that I needed. And I was convinced of that. And, uh, I ended up spending some money on a, on a fancy little preamp and I was like, ah, problem solved. Finally, I’ve got a good preamp, you know? And, uh, after doing a recording with that, pre-AP I realized, well, hell, this sounds just as bad as it did before. You know, all my God, the problem is me, you know? And, uh, as soon as I came to that realization, it just changed my whole world. I was like, wait a second. This, this is a perfectly fine, Mike, this is a great interface. This software is wildly powerful. I’m the one who has to get it done. And I don’t know, since, since I owned that, I feel like, you know, my progress or whatever has, uh, has exponentially grown.
Adam:
Yeah. So that’s one hard trying to get that across. Yeah. I’m still, yeah. After, after years, years of struggling with, I still, I still grapple with that. If I’m being honest, you know, not, not so much, you know, I need a preamp, but it’s like, how many ways are there to skin this cat? You know what I mean? It’s like, I’ll watch a, I’ll talk to somebody whose work that I really admire. And they’re like, Oh, I do this, you know, I’ve tried this, you know, and I’m like, Oh, that makes so much sense. You know? And I’ve, I’ll immediately go try it out. And here we go, things are gonna change. You know, it’s just that doesn’t work. And again, it’s like one of those like, well, it depends, you know, it’s, it’s like, it just, not everything works for everybody. It’s so frustrating, but it’s important to like, you know, have that extra card in your deck because eventually it’s going to work in a situation, you know, at least you hope will it, I don’t know. That’s my hope, but yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. So what I want to talk to you about, um, your, your musical scoring, because that’s got nothing to do with gear. Again, this is totally creative. Um, I’m assuming this came to you because you’re good at finding those opportunities. You are networking. So there’s a lot of people who have no idea what it means to score for television, for film. And they probably don’t know the first step and how to even find a job like that. Yeah. So do you want to give some, you know, pull the curtain back and explain like how someone might, you know, go about finding those jobs and, and what that even means to score for TV? Like how do you do that?
Adam:
Sure. Well, the, the sort of metaphysical answer, if I’m using that word the right way is, uh, I like, I like to try to always make sure that I’m known as like the guy who can like do that, you know, so anybody who needs that, if they hear about me, they hear that I’m the guy who I love.
Adam:
Yeah. That’s a good one.
David:
Yeah. And, you know, because with the writing for TV thing, like I could just say, yeah, it fell out of the sky and in my lap and that that’s the gig, you know, but really at the end of the day, um, I ran into a good buddy of mine. His name is Dave rock, our, um, he writes for TV, uh, con a lot more than I do. Um, but Dave, uh, we were just chatting in the guitar shop one day. And I knew Dave because he had actually come to the school where I teach to see about a teaching position. And even though he didn’t get the gig at that time, um, you know, I ran into him a couple of years later. I was like, Hey man, how’s it going? We’re chatting. And he’s telling me what he’s doing. And I was like, Oh man, that is so cool.
Speaker 3:
And he asked me something, I told him that, you know, I used to write this music, custom music for this radio thing that I used to do long time ago. And he’s like, really? Cause we need writers. And I was like, um, what’s up? Tell me what you need. Let’s go, let’s do this. You know? So it was kind of serendipitous, but at the same time, it was a years long track record of, of just connecting with people and known as like the guy, you know? So that, that’s kind of how that came to be. Um, as far as like doing the actual writing, it’s, it’s kind of wild because sometimes, you know, what show you’re writing for. Um, and in that case, uh, I’ll watch an episode of the show and I’ll get a, you know, some reference music and, you know, basically just create music that’s in that same vein, something that fits with what they already do at ya. Um, I’ve, you know, um, I’ve definitely been introduced to some interesting shows I’ve never seen before, like catfish on MTV. Uh, I didn’t even know that was still out. I don’t know. I don’t know. And that was probably still happening out there. I don’t know if the shows there. Oh yeah. Oh, I’m sure I was. I watched it. I was like catfish, what in the world is that? So I looked at an episode I’m like, these people are creeping me out. Yeah.
Adam:
Isn’t that? Where like, you know, you get caught by like the nine year old man hitting on the 16 year old girl posing is the 16 year old boy.
David:
Uh, yeah. That, or like you, you, you just pretend, you just pretend to be somebody you’re not. Yeah. And these people just get a kick out of ruin and ruined lives of other people and then MTV made a show about it. Alright, America. Yeah. Yeah. Now make music for it. Okay. All right. Some creepy cues. Sure.
Adam:
That’s funny. Are you, are you getting, um, are you getting direction from like a music supervisor saying here’s the mood? Here’s the, here’s the tempo, here’s the scene for sure. What is it?
David:
Yep. So I’m actually, uh, uh, uh, an independent contractor for a company that basically provides all of these different production houses that make these shows with music. So, you know, I, I am just one of several writers. Um, I think a couple dozen, um, you know, across the globe and like the assignment will come in, Hey, we need, you know, 40 pieces of music for XYZ television show. Um, here are some breaths and they’ll send some MP3s of, uh, you know, references that have either been used on the show or are in the same ballpark. And we’ll just write music, you know, in, in that thing. And so, um, you know, I’m certainly not writing all of it for a show I’m writing amongst many, many other writers.
Adam:
So is everybody working like as a team toward fulfilling, you know, the amount of cues they’re looking for for that show? Or are you working independently or how’s that work? I mean, this is specific to your situation. I’m curious.
David:
Yeah. Um, at least with this company, it’s mostly as a team.
Adam:
Oh, cool. So are you literally like are more than one writer working on the same queue?
David:
No, not on the same cue. Just on the same bag. So maybe if I do like six or eight somebody else to do six or eight, you know, then they’ll be able to deliver 40 or 50 pieces of original music.
Adam:
Oh, that’s cool. Yeah. So our, I mean, how’s that working with other people or you guys, I mean, are you, are you really working together in the way of like, you’re kind of discussing like, Hey, what are you doing? You know, want to bounce off this idea for you? Or is it more just, you’re kind of, you’re doing your thing and not really tributing into the,
David:
not really the guy who owns the company lives in Michigan. Um, spoke, spoken with him on the phone, seems like a great, great guy, but like, I I’ve never met him. And he basically just, you know, gets the assignments, puts together. You know, he does all the administrative like business. He owns the business, he runs the business, but he’s got a team of people where he’s like, okay, here’s what, here’s what we need guys. And if everybody could get me, you know, five QS by like 10:00 PM sharp on Thursday, you know? Um, and then he just kind of takes her from there.
Adam:
Yeah. That’s awesome. So once again, you know, deadlines, getting it done, the man as you are the guy as he called yourself. Right. So all of that, I’m guessing, sorry, all that I’m guessing probably takes quite a bit of organization and, you know, keeping an eye on the prize, you know? Yeah. You want to talk about that? Like, how’s that work, especially like, if you’re talking with, you know, you’ve got cues over here, you’ve got clients over there, you’ve got a class to teach. It’s a lot to juggle, you know,
David:
I guess so I guess so I, it never ever feels like work. So I don’t feel like I’m juggling anything, you know? I mean every once in awhile, I’ll, you know, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll realize like, Oh shoot. Like I told this client, I would have that mix done by, you know, whenever. And I’ve just had my mind on some other thing, you know, we all, I suppose get tripped up a little bit here and there. But as far as like, finding that balance between like work and life, like, I, I feel like I’m kind of in a perfect balance. Um, because I, it doesn’t feel like work. I feel like I have tons of free time yet. I’m never sitting around doing nothing. You know what I mean? You are never doing nothing.
Adam:
You are, again, as I mentioned before, you were like the problem solver, mr. You know, car breaks down, I’m fixing it. I’m figuring out you top tiling, the backsplash in the bathroom and the shirt. I’m pretty sure someone told me that you are building a studio. So like you are just, yeah, I don’t know how you actually work with all the stuff you’re doing.
David:
That’s not working. Right. And it actually, I’m actually building a 320 square foot deck right now. I just took a quick break, come in and do this here because why not? It’s a good quick break from building a studio to build a 320 square foot deck. Yeah. Yeah. Well, what’s crazy is with all this, you know, coronavirus, craziness going on, um, you know, I, I have to rely on other people, contractors and whatnot to do the building of the studio. Um, so that’s, you know, it’s, it’s a little bit on pause right now know, uh, but you know, the structure’s done. It’s nice and big. It’s beautiful. If you want, uh, maybe later on, I can even go to my phone for the hangout and I’d be happy to show you. Oh yeah, that’d be cool. Yeah, sure, sure. It’s just a big old empty room right now, but you can get it, you get a scope of, uh, what it will be.
Adam:
well, so why don’t you talk about that? Because again, you know, you and I have known each other for a while and you know, we’ve talked about your new space, but it, once again, it just goes back to your philosophy about like, what do I need to get the job done? What works the most efficiently for me? And most people, if they think about a recording studio, you know, they’re thinking about a room with a whole bunch of gear. They’re thinking about a smaller room, you know, an ISO booth to put a singer in or some instruments. They’re talking about a bigger room with drums. You’re making one big room. So you want to talk about like the most part, how did your decision to come, come to that point?
David:
Great question. Um, it evolved definitely. Um, so I know you can’t see me right now in this video, but I’m, uh, I’m in a tiny little room in the downstairs of my house. Um, we bought this house last year and as you know, we’re talking, I’ve, I’ve started building the studio, but I cannot stop doing my work. So I, you know, in, in this little room, uh, I’ve done three albums so far, um, and a ton of like singles and one off things and, you know, random gigs and writing stuff and original music and all that stuff. But like, you know, when you, when you’re able to see the video, um, you’ll see this little tiny space. Uh, I don’t know. It’s not all that impressive. I got a whole bunch of stuff, Crandall a little room, but you know, the truth of the matter is like, if you got, if you got to get it done, you got to get it done. You know, I can’t tell every it tell the world to hold on while I build my studio. So, um, yeah, that’s a, that’s the deal here. So as far as the studio goes, um, it is mostly going to be like one big room, which is kind of opposite of convention. Um, you know, typically you’ll have a smaller control room with all the gear where the engineer sits and you’ve got, you know, the huge live room where all the magic happens, so to speak, um, in my scenario for, you know, 20 something years, almost 30 years that I’ve been doing this, I’ve always been in the same room at my, you know, at my desk as the musicians that I’m working with. I’ve never had the luxury of, of using a live room. And when I built this studio or when I designed the studio, I was thinking to myself, you know, I’m going to finally have myself a nice big live room. It’s going to be great. But then the more I thought about that, the more I realized, well, shoot, why would I have like the largest space in the building taken up by the least used space? No kidding, no kidding. So, and, uh, you know, I’m a drummer myself, so that’s, that’s my primary instrument. And, you know, drums are like the one thing that you kind of want to be able to record in a big room, hard.
Adam:
drummers are gonna take away your card for, for not going with the big room for the drummers.
David:
Well, but that’s the thing. I will have the big room. It’s just, I have no problem being in the same room as the kits now. Um, but I, it is going to have isolation booths. So if I, if I do, you know, want to record a bunch of people live and I need extreme isolation, like that’s definitely still going to be an option, but I want for my space where I’m sitting, where I’m at the, you know, the, the desk with the monitors and all that, um, to just be like this open cool, you know, hangout area, you know, just a place to relax. Um, but also obviously highly functional to get work done. Yeah. Um, so if I built like a, like a tiny little control room and had this big grand live room, that would kind of be the opposite of what I’m trying to do.
Adam:
Right. So it takes, yeah, it takes a bit of confidence, I guess you could say, um, to operate against convention as you put it, you know, and, you know, speaking to someone who’s heard your work, I mean, no, one’s listening to your work and going, man, he should have recorded it in some other place or he shouldn’t, he should have had those drums and other room, or he should have this or should have it like, no one’s doing that. So, I mean, the proof is in the pudding, you know, but like if just thinking back, like to someone who either has spent their entire career in big studios and big rooms and has those, you know, you know, spaces that we’re used to, or if I’m, you know, a student learning, you know, and seeing all the pictures and watching all the videos of the awesome glorious spaces, that, again, we’re all accustomed and used to, it probably would freak me out. I think, you know, again, not, not using the crazy expensive microphone, not having all of the gear, all the plugins, the big room. I mean, you gotta do what you gotta do, but again, like for you, like, you’re not worried about this all, and you’ve been doing it for a long enough time to, to get that confidence and where the confidence came. Like just this realization, I’m assuming I was just like, yeah, this totally works. Why would I do it another way? But like, man, I don’t know if there’s a question here, I guess I’m just like thinking about this, but it’s just one of those things I think about it’s, it’s hard to, uh, you know, develop that kind of a, uh, a philosophy and a workflow when everything around you, not everything, but so much around you is putting your face of like, do it this other way, the way we’ve always done it. Yeah.
David:
Yeah. And as a, as a teacher, I really try to fight that, you know, I’ll tell my students, listen, here’s, here’s what I do. And here’s why I do it this way, but it is definitely not the only way to solve this problem. Right. You know, you know, people, my students will ask me, um, workflow questions, you know, about, I don’t know, coding your tracks or naming stuff. Uh, you know, and I’ll say, well, here’s, here’s what I do. And this is exactly why I do it. And it’s, it’s sort of dictated by the gear that I use by my workflow, by the genre of music that I’m doing. Like, it I’ll expose them to all of the different things that are, that are the reason why it goes down like that. Um, but I’ll say, Hey, look, what are your thoughts on it? Try, try some other way. What’s the fastest way to get you to the right sound, you know? Cause that’s the right way to do it.
Adam:
Yeah. And in most cases, well it’s the why, right. It’s not the what, it’s the why, right?
David:
Yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah. I actually say that to my guys all the time. It’s, you know, like don’t memorize facts, like understand concepts, you know, why and how is so much more important than what you know, so, yeah.
Adam:
Yeah. I’ve, I’ve had experiences in my past where, um, there were people in positions who were told when this happens, do this, press this at this time, it was never like, Hey, because you’re pressing this at this time, this will happen. Or because what’s happening over here, it’s affecting this. So you should react with this sort of a thought. So like when things didn’t exactly happen, like they mentioned, they still probably should have pushed the button, but it wasn’t ABC happened. It was ABD. And all of a sudden they weren’t like educated for all those whys. So I watched this ship burn more times because of a lack of really a lot. It wasn’t the people’s the button pushers fault. It was the people that were in charge of those button, pushers, withholding all this information or like, you know, falsely giving them this sort of idea of what to do. And it’s kind of, I see it so much too with like, you know, we’ve all seen YouTube videos that are 30 minutes of eqing, the kick drum. I mean, I used to watch them all the time. I’m guessing you used to watch them too. We all have, but it’s like if I have to watch another mixed review, that’s just scrolling through the track saying, and then I cut this and then I cut this and then I cut this and then it’s on the next thing. And I cut this and I cut this and I compressed this. It’s like, who gets any value on any of this? What can I take as an action step later? So it’s only like the philosophies and describing like why yeah. With the, what the intention is, you know, and understanding the moving parts.
David:
You know, that’s why a fairly significant part of my program is, is music. You know, they’re, they come to the school to be engineers and to be, uh, you know, creators, um, when you’re working with musicians, like you have to speak their language, you know? So if you can, you can be the greatest engineer on the planet, but you still have to communicate with people. You know, just simply being technically proficient is, is really not enough. Um, you know, it’s, it’s understanding all the things that are affecting the job that we’re trying to do. Not just like the tools.
Adam:
yeah. Reading the room. Right? Yeah. The technical seems to be almost the last part of the equation. I know a lot of really great engineers. Some of them, I would never want to hire our work with, I just don’t want to be around them. But I mean, yeah. I mean, and that’s the case with every, you know, every walk of life, right. You know, in the end, you know, there’s a lot of people who can do what you do, right. There’s a lot of people that can do what I do. A lot of people can do it. You do Dave. But I think that, you know, I’ll speak for you. Uh, you bring something so much more to the table, so much more special and personality in that confidence. You’re just the fun to hang. You’ve got a perspective that is really fresh and fun. You know? I mean, people, if you really got to check out his YouTube channel and just check them out on Facebook, because the guy’s got, you know, he’s got conversation for days and, uh, you know, that, that comes from just like, you know, you’ve got that different kind of perspective and you’ve got a lot of experience under your belt. So, um, it’s awesome. And it comes through a thing with your clients and your work and, um, yeah, state just saying, I appreciate you so much, Dave, thank you so much for taking the time and talk with us. Um, it was really, really informative. So if anybody wants to hear, uh, and get any more information from Dave, you can reach him directly by visiting his website. [inaudible] dot com. You can look for that link in the description below. Um, you can also stay in the loop on Instagram and Facebook at tile mixes. I highly encourage you. There’s plenty to get there, but that’s it for this episode. If you liked what you heard, please leave a comment below, let me know what you liked. And don’t forget to hit the like button and subscribe to the channel, to ring the bell. It really, really does go a long way towards 40th channel. And also don’t forget your free gift. Please go to http://www.Adamclairmont.com. All right. Thanks so much guys. See you next time.
Adam Clairmont 